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In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

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In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby VR Hacks » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:52 pm

Excerpted from the release notes:

  • When leasing out Blocks, the minimum rent amount is now 5,000 BLU. This does not apply to Shops.

So... now you're going to set rental prices? Erm... okie dokie.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby NAIMA ID:NAIMA » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:51 pm

I need the opacit maps in the new release or I cant further work ...
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby DanielRavenNest ID:DanielRa » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:57 am

My intended *average* home rental site is 8192 square meters when my city is full (Village, 100 blocks = 820,000 meters, leaving about 20% common areas like beaches and roads). If you force a minimum price of nearly $20 a month, then that will lock out a number of people who might otherwise rent. I said above was *average*, I had offered to make blocks as small as 1024m with 1MB data allowance for things like "experimental sandbox" building.

Setting a high minimum for blocks will force some annoying workaround for smaller tenants, rather than "here is your block, build on it in peace and upload the file when ready". An explanation of *why* you set a minimum price is in order. Other than the database support, all the workload for integrating a block and finding bugs falls on the city owner before uploading. As city owners, we are supposed to be your partners in operating Blue Mars. You make the software, and the platform, but please don't meddle in our business plans without at least talking to us about it first.
Last edited by DanielRavenNest ID:DanielRa on Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby NCARalph ID:NCARalph » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:22 am

One thought on this is that AR's model is that there aren't a large number of blocks per city. Rather that City Developers will create a relatively small number of Blocks and lease them out to Block Developers who in turn will lease out Shops and Residences. Given the barriers to entry for content developers in BM, that's not a terrible model, and if a Block developer is creating say 10 shops or 20 residences and sub leasing them, then a ß5000 minimum isn't unreasonable.

However, IMHO if that model is going to work, the way shelves, shops, and residences work is going to have to change. The current scheme of 250 items in a block is far too small, either there have to be more shelves or a way to display multiple items per shelf either sequentially or simultaneously if there are going to be more than a few shops in a block.

The inability to make even tiny changes such as surface textures by shop and residence leasees also seems problematical since it requires the Block Developer to do it, which seems like a lot of maintenance work.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby josh2481 ID:josh2481 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:21 am

If this is a temporary setting to help work an issue or bug then I'm all for it. I do hope this does not remain as this is going to force many to just up and leave if your going to be setting prices for us.

I say no to the 5000 blue minimum on blocks.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby Geenz ID:Geenz » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:33 am

josh2481 ID:josh2481 wrote:I say no to the 5000 blue minimum on blocks.

How about no to AR setting minimums on what people charge for their services in general.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby DanielRavenNest ID:DanielRa » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:28 am

NCARalph ID:NCARalph wrote:One thought on this is that AR's model is that there aren't a large number of blocks per city. Rather that City Developers will create a relatively small number of Blocks and lease them out to Block Developers who in turn will lease out Shops and Residences. Given the barriers to entry for content developers in BM, that's not a terrible model, and if a Block developer is creating say 10 shops or 20 residences and sub leasing them, then a ß5000 minimum isn't unreasonable.


Your thought does not match up with the pricing plans, which show 100 blocks at the village level and 500 at the city level. Given the hosting fees, the *cost* per block is $2.75 and $2.00 a month per block @ village and city levels. Setting a 5000 blu minimum, requires the *price* to be $18.50 at the best exchange rate, which is a horrendous markup, and tenants are not dumb, they will know what the markup is. When it comes to saving money, people are terribly ingenious. I can think of three ways around that minimum price off the top of my head, and I am sure there are more. I won't list them in public, though.

I disagree about barriers to entry. I have some experimental blocks being built on by friends from Second Life. They were able to build, furnish, and landscape homes on those blocks in a week, with no prior experience, just some instructions from me. I am not saying they created the models, I supplied those, or they used AR_common plants, but in Second Life most people do not create everything from scratch, they buy pre-made items and just arrange them to suit themselves. I will also point out that of the SL users who spend any money at all (which is 2/3 of all players who log in regularly, the other 1/3 dont spend anything), 70% spend less than 5000 L$ a month (L$ and blu$ are essentially the same exchange rates). Out of that spending, not all goes to land rental, people do other things like shop for clothes, etc.

In any case, sub-leasing of blocks is currently disabled, so your idea of Block Devs turning around and leasing shops and residences is not currently possible, while the price limit is already set up. This limit will restrict block renting to a small fraction of the total possible market, perhaps 20% of users that spend more than $25-30 a month total for a given virtual world.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby VR Hacks » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:52 am

NCARalph ID:NCARalph wrote:One thought on this is ...

Micromanagement
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby TA20 ID:TA20 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:11 pm

My plan does not have the rental business of Block in my City. However, I dislike new limits of Block and Shop. :|
http://www.bluemars.com/hosting/service.html

I can put only 5(Shops/Blocks=5) Shops in one Block now. Is this Outpost only?

It is necessary to add small Block when we put shop more than 6 in the near place. These work and the management become more troublesome.
I hope to count shops per City, not per Block. or delte shops limit.
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Re: In re SDK 2010-06-08 release

Postby Magellan ID:Magellan » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:13 pm

I think I may be zigging when everyone else is zagging on this question and, since I don't plan to do anything other than rent space, I am obviously bearing the financial brunt of this decision. However, just look at the consequences and see which you prefer.

There is already an oversupply of blocks and this is set to get worse as more cities come online with exactly the same business plan: lease blocks to tenants and sit back. I lost count of the number of city developers who approached me about taking a shop or block. It is seven or eight. I also think that too much land is being developed by too few people, that the amount of work going into land development is insufficient, and that much of it undersells BM and looks little better than SL (or even OpenSim) - a personal opinion, yes, but I know what I see and there is therefore no need to try to persuade me differently. What we need is better quality land development, not more land. I think it is becoming clear that BM is not based on the same land-based expansionism of SL, and therefore a change in thinking is required. Now, can I make enough on a block to have a decent and worthwhile profit to repay all the work I am putting into creation? I do not know. But what I do know is that BM MUST go for concentrated quality, not size.

No minimum
Pro: rapid growth in land occupancy
Con: casual land occupancy, low care/quality building, low traffic/block, desperate competition for scarce tenants, untaken leases (several of those exist already), good cities going out of business

ß5000 minimum
Pro: committed land occupancy, serious building, high traffic/block, fair competition for scarce tenants, viable business model for the best cities
Con: slow growth in land occupancy, untaken leases

NB: This is NOT a troll :)
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