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IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Moderator: Blue Mars Staff

IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby NAIMA ID:NAIMA » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:20 am

Helo all , it's now a year that with highs and downs I am working on my Island , I wasn't put down by the difficulties of the system and I got some really great and valuable help by some people from AR like Tim tim and others .... but at this point I am still asking myself , I am building a Cathedral in the Desert?
All the people I have been talking to out of BM are telling me things like ok this is nice but is boring , there will not be interaction at the levels of Second life and nothing fun to do apart enter a minigame and be bored after it....

This has to change ,

What We need and what is to be FOCUSED ON to my Humble point of view are three main factors ......

1) CHANGE THE AVATARS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvJas-BO ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUY5QoZ ... re=related

2) OFFER an upd to date competitive Cutomization interface system : LIKE This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5i_mgF7Vas or This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvo1aVE ... related....

3) Ingame Interaction and synchronization , without such a thing it is not possible to go beyond chat and small minigames compromising the whole social life interaction and gaming ...


The main things that is keeping people out of BM are those , I hear those lamentations everyday in my place in SL where they comment my publicity to BM , aske me what you can do and how avatars are like then they answer me that even SL avatars are better and you can do lot more things in SL without efforts.... then you can compare the character system of BM with other virtual worlds out there and you can see the obviouse difference...

Cryengine is an amazing platform for state of the art tech and results , it allows face morphings , subsurface scattering , different procedural animation blends and so on the list , it can allow very superdetailed characters and customization ..... please focus on this and hear to our petition .....
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby VR Hacks » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:42 pm

Here, here! I wholeheartedly agree with Naima! If you want users to hang around, AR, you need to give them a reason to want to hang around. And that, in part, is avatar customization along with a reasonable synchronization system. And please, get better forum software. Using this craptastic phpbb forum software raises the question of just how committed AR is to seeing blue mars to fruition. You know, as a real product as opposed to someone's R&D plaything.
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby Maxwell-Graf ID:Maxwell- » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:52 pm

I third the motion to re-prioritize, making these features available to the community and the developers.

I consistently hear the complaints - many times a week - from people both within bluemars and within second life. The avatars and the inherent lack of customization, the high polygon count of the many layers of items per avatar, the lack of synchronization, the lack of working vehicles all contribute to what will surely be the demise of this platform/game/environment before it ever gets off the ground.

I have said it before, i will say so again: You are searching for the answer that will bring people here and keep them here. WE have that answer, and have been posting it here in the forums and in world for months; Give us the tools to create engaging content, give the end users avatars that they can customize and you will have more people here than you know what to do with, eager to spend money, time and talent to make this the world we all want it to be. Without the tools to do so, this will remain a very pretty chat room until you run out of money. If the attrition rate of developers is any indicator, we will be gone long before that.

I will say that i think the addition of cloud rendering/web streaming access will open the gates to the masses of people on the internet, but without the above mentioned capabilities, they will quickly turn around and leave again as so many others have already, for lack of anything to do or keep them here. While you build the back end, the developers build the front end. When you open those gates, WE will be the ones here to welcome them and give them things to do, clothing to wear, games to play, places to live. If we do not have the ability to make and provide those things, this will not succeed.

I strongly urge you to reconsider whatever is scheduled on your agenda for the next few months and focus on providing us with a means to help make this a success.
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby sylvia-plath ID:sylvia-p » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:19 pm

guys,you.love.concise.exposes

:mrgreen:
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby DanielRavenNest ID:DanielRa » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:57 pm

Maxwell-Graf ID:Maxwell- wrote: Give us the tools to create engaging content, give the end users avatars that they can customize and you will have more people here than you know what to do with


Specifically, we need:

(1) a way for developers to provide each other with pieces of content while protecting our intellectual property the way it's protected in player downloads (encrypted .pak files). That means making scripts, prefabs, particle libraries, etc as sellable/tradeable items with limited use rights. Not as they are now, which is freely copiable once you get your hands on it. Most of us are not skilled in every area of game development, and so need to buy or trade for those things we cannot do well on our own.

(2) A strong focus on making the wiki an actual developers manual. It's a lot better than it was a year ago, but it is still too much a random scattering of pages that don't tell new developers what they need to learn. If we can't teach new developers how to make stuff, there won't be much stuff made, it's that simple. I have been here over a year, and I still have challenges finding out simple things like how to make a light switch work. If needed, vastly increase the library of pre-made entities.

(3) As NAIMA and others have mentioned, players need to emotionally identify with their avatars if you want them to hang around and spend money. That means fix the creepy "avatar looking at me out of the screen". If it's looking at me, its not me, its someone else. That means fix the face shape edit so that sliders don't all move when you adjust one of them, and so it shows the actual result you get when you close the window, and so we can save faces we have made like we can with makeup. That means fix the inability to change height, we are not all the same height! That means adding in-world body shape adjustment. That means finish the long-incomplete set of clothing cages, and give us scripted attachments, so we can hold an item in our hand and have it do something (magic wand, gun, whatever). The clothing system we have now is a good start, but it is a long way from a finished customization system. People want full control over how their avatar body looks, how it moves, and all the stuff that avatar wears and can use.

(4) I might be wrong about this, but I don't think Apartments and Residences where people cannot modify the building will be very popular. That is why I have been working on building kits, where even after I deliver a Pre-fab, the user can make changes if they decide on a different wallpaper later or want to move a wall. But right now I don't have a good way to sell my kits outside of using them in my own cities (see item 1 above). People will want things they buy, including houses and landscaping, to be portable. If someone makes a cool boat, how does one of my tenants buy it and bring it into my cities to use? I specifically set up lots of accessible waterfront so that people who like boating can use them. I would love to have boat races, but it's impossible at this point: no way to bring the boats in, and no working vehicle system so everyone stays in sync.
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby GeneticDrift ID:GeneticD » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:49 am

NAIMA ID:NAIMA wrote:

3) Ingame Interaction and synchronization , without such a thing it is not possible to go beyond chat and small minigames compromising the whole social life interaction and gaming ...



Number 3 is the most important 1 for me, although I admit to not really understanding the limitations and the technical reasons for compromises that may have been made. All I know is people (myself included) want to have something cool to do. The users are complaining that there is not much in BM for them. An inworld friend of mine said " You can only do so much shopping". They feel like second class citzens to developers. Atleast the developers get to have fun and games learning the editors LOL.

Maybe some pretty darn cool multiplayer experiences can be done with what there is, I wouldn't know. If they can, I think AR needs to step in and develop something cool if they want to capture new users. I sort of realise that they are focused more on the "platform" so developers have the tools to do this stuff. But it hasn't happened much, with such a tiny dev community thats still finding its feet.

Some other good points made here also by others. Although some features I can understand why AR is taking there time with. Alot of the features once implimented can not be turned back on without causing a riot, so very careful thought has to go into them before they are unrolled.

Personally I think this Cloud stuff should be low on the priority list.

Thats my 2cents from a dev who has so far contributed nothing inworld
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby NAIMA ID:NAIMA » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:00 am

Now We know that Cryengine can allows this , so lets change the avatars and lets get them to look as close as possible to a real human beeing ....

Image

Image

Image
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby VR Hacks » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:24 am

GeneticDrift ID:GeneticD wrote:
NAIMA ID:NAIMA wrote:3) Ingame Interaction and synchronization , without such a thing it is not possible to go beyond chat and small minigames compromising the whole social life interaction and gaming ...


Number 3 is the most important 1 for me, although I admit to not really understanding the limitations and the technical reasons for compromises that may have been made. All I know is people (myself included) want to have something cool to do. The users are complaining that there is not much in BM for them. An inworld friend of mine said " You can only do so much shopping". They feel like second class citzens to developers. Atleast the developers get to have fun and games learning the editors LOL.

[snipped for brevity]

Excellent points, and I agree. Being able to "pretty up" your avie would be great. However, having a pretty avie with nothing to do is basically useless, and certainly will not increase long-term retention. What they need is a means to "create an experience" as opposed to a wax museum with nothing to do. In order to provide a means to create truly captivating MMO interactivity however they really need to beef up the sync as opposed to expecting devs to write their own sync systems. I admittedly cannot help but to *hope* they actually want to grow Blue Mars into a platform that can support real MMOs as opposed to this... Then again, who really knows? After all, we've yet to see a definitive wrt AR's vision for their platform.
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby Kaliq ID:Kaliq » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:57 pm

+1, I totally agree with everything being said above.

If i ask myself what is there to do in BM today?.. then it is totally boring place where you end up spending most of the time walking/running around big territories and in some cities - admiring the landscape/buildings from 3d artist point of view. That's it. There are few to none people in the welcome area, it is a big miracle if you manage to meet somebody online at the same time you are in another city.

From developer's point of view (additionally to things which have already been mentioned by other devs):
1) flowgraphs are not being synchronized which is totally wrong for online game;
2) solid walls are allowed to mess between viewpoint and your avatar (none of the professional 3d games has it - GTA, JustCause2, Asassins Creed, you name it);
3) the only thing you can place in the furniture is sitting animation, right? - how could that not be boring?;
4) sex has been banned - which means no adult full spectrum relationships will be built (totally worth to ban it because we open the platform for kids - the most important and valuable segment for BM economy,...NOT!), and lets be honest, relationships at the end is the most common cause why somebody is coming into virtual world;
5) trying to create anything functional in BM ends up with lack of info on how to do it or you simply cannot do it. If compared to SL - many interesting things were relatively easy to script. LUA at the same time has this object oriented code where first - it is barely readable when each and every line is very long and contains something like this: class1.subclass1.subsubclass2.subsubsubclass6.item7.function()... Learning curve is awful. Okay there was one guy who managed to create a helicopter, so what? Did others benefit from that? Do we all know how to create helicopters now? No..
6) Have seen some great cars and physics like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBcxA84p5ro , if such stuff will not become available and synchronized then that will be another disappointment.
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Re: IMPORTANT PRIORITY FEATURES!!!

Postby DanielRavenNest ID:DanielRa » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:08 am

Kaliq ID:Kaliq wrote:1) flowgraphs are not being synchronized which is totally wrong for online game;


I will ask the AR Staff then: If this is an MMO (as it states on login when it fails to load) with multiple people in the same region, why was it not designed from the start so that
changes to objects are synchronized? If it is not, then what we have is not a multiplayer world. What we have are separate instances of single player games in separate states, where the players happen to be able to communicate.

I just realized what a fail that is for my houses. The doors are not in sync, and neither will the light switches be. So when a resident "turns down the lights" to set a romantic mood,
nothing will happen for the other player. Most people don't buy houses to sit in them by themselves. They want to do things with other people, to socialize. And that means each person needs to see the same things at the same time.

If you try and tell me I need to set up an external database to track and distribute object states, well, I don't know how to do that. I expect that 90% of developers won't. It needs to be done right, once, by the platform designers.
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